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#1 2013-06-26 06:30:29

Diego Gonzalez
NPPAngband Source Contributor
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 292

Dragons sure are hard...

My epitaph will say: He was killed by a ball spell casted by a "D".

Already lost 3 characters due to this new feature. It seems that the ancient dragons/wyrms are now in the monster category "avoid to all cost", like the bigger Hydraas smile A solution could be to make potions of resistance more easy to find.

-Diego

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#2 2013-06-26 20:31:54

NPPAngband
NPPAngband Maintainer
Registered: 2004-07-01
Posts: 1,647
Website

Re: Dragons sure are hard...

The reason they have ball spells is so the player can't stay 15 squares away from the dragons and take minimal damage from cone breath spells (their damage diminishes over distance).  But the ball spells should be no more damaging than their regular full strength breath attacks.  What is causing the deaths?  If their spellpower is too high, it can be reduced.

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#3 2013-06-27 09:08:41

Diego Gonzalez
NPPAngband Source Contributor
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 292

Re: Dragons sure are hard...

I think I'm repeating the same mistake. My character hit points are in the range 100-200. The dragon is almost dead. Boom! It happened with a Bile Wyrm, a Great Crystal Drake and Scatha. Everytime I had single resist, even shards. Perhaps I should carry potions of resist cold, resist acid, etc. The problem with that is that my warriors will use four or five inventory slots to carry those potions. Or perhaps tone down the damage to half the full strength of the breath attack. Or it'll be too easy that way? What do you think?

-Diego

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#4 2013-06-27 10:02:33

camb
Member
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 705

Re: Dragons sure are hard...

Yep the Dragon ball attacks still catch me by surprise quite often as well, and it's usually pure luck that I survive them (if I do). The problem is that you get used to the level of damage that a creature inflicts over the course of many battles, and accommodate to suit, then a ball spell will suddenly do a hugely disproportionate amount of damage way out of line with expectations.

Cameron

Last edited by camb (2013-06-27 10:02:52)

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#5 2013-06-27 11:42:16

Diego Gonzalez
NPPAngband Source Contributor
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 292

Re: Dragons sure are hard...

Yes, I have to change my tactics and forget my old habits. A problem I see with this feature is that you have to use more potions of healing to fight wyrms and the unique dragons. Or use a lot of teleport other and things like that. A tactic I used with mages was to dig a somewhat big spiral tunnel, then when hp run low you cast rift on the monster and it gets teleported outside the spiral, eventually. The time that the monster uses to travel through the spiral again you quaff a lot of !CCW and regenerates some mana. I don't use it anymore because it consumes a lot of time to dig the spiral.

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#6 2013-06-27 12:52:39

ramela
Member
From: Helsinki
Registered: 2004-10-01
Posts: 420

Re: Dragons sure are hard...

From a flavour/design perspective, I feel that the ball spells should have significantly lower damage than a full strenght breath.

IMO breath attacks are the signature ranged attack of a dragon and the ball spells should be a plan b or fall back option when the player is being a jerk.

The breath damage dissipating


style7,NPPAngband.png

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#7 2013-06-27 16:52:11

NPPAngband
NPPAngband Maintainer
Registered: 2004-07-01
Posts: 1,647
Website

Re: Dragons sure are hard...

Thinking about cutting their spell power (damage) in half....  Does at work?

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#8 2013-06-28 01:03:12

ramela
Member
From: Helsinki
Registered: 2004-10-01
Posts: 420

Re: Dragons sure are hard...

I can't believe I posted that cut of at the middle of a sentence...

I was about to say that maybe the rate at which damage dissipates from breaths could be looked at.

As for cutting the spell power, I would go at 75%-65% of current to start with.


style7,NPPAngband.png

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#9 2013-07-06 22:25:20

NPPAngband
NPPAngband Maintainer
Registered: 2004-07-01
Posts: 1,647
Website

Re: Dragons sure are hard...

After thinking about it, the whole point of giving dragons the ball-breath spells was to take away the player greatly reducing the breath damage from long range.  So reducing the spell power of the dragons would defeat the point.  I like the suggestion of re-visiting the rate that damage dissipates from breaths, but I have also found them a little messy as well.  There is alot of collateral damage to objects on the floor, and to other messages.

My initial compromise on this is, for the dragon's ball spell attack, to have it decrease at a rate 50% that of the breath spells.  So for a healthy dragon, the arc and ball breaths will have the same damage.  For a nearly dead dragon,  the ball breath will dish out about half the damage of a healthy one. 

This is handled in melee1.c, the get_ball_beam_dam function if anyone wants to toy around with a different ratio.  I am open to suggestions.

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#10 2013-07-07 01:35:29

camb
Member
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 705

Re: Dragons sure are hard...

NPPAngband wrote:

My initial compromise on this is, for the dragon's ball spell attack, to have it decrease at a rate 50% that of the breath spells.  So for a healthy dragon, the arc and ball breaths will have the same damage.  For a nearly dead dragon,  the ball breath will dish out about half the damage of a healthy one.

That sounds like a good compromise thanks.

Cameron

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#11 2013-07-07 11:06:12

NPPAngband
NPPAngband Maintainer
Registered: 2004-07-01
Posts: 1,647
Website

Re: Dragons sure are hard...

camb wrote:

That sounds like a good compromise thanks.

Cameron

Don't thank me yet.  There was a pretty serious error in the code I posted to github last night.  If anyone downloaded that code they need to patch it ASAP or else suffer some gruesome instadeaths:

@@ -2001,11 +2001,11 @@ int get_ball_beam_dam(int m_idx, monster_race *r_ptr, int attack, int gf_type, b

            /*
             * Average the damage of a fully healthy creature, and the current monster, so
             * ball (breath) spells lose some power, but not as much as plain breath spells.
             */
-            max_dam = (breath_dam + max_dam) / 2;
+            dam = (breath_dam + dam) / 2;
        }
    }

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